Teens Who Make Virginity Pledges Have Substantially Improved Life Outcomes
This is a good study. After looking at their data, it is certainly noteworthy, and helpful to those who track behaviour.
What this web page does not show me, however, is the success of a program.
Let me explain. This shows a population that is asked to fill out a virginity pledge after some seminar. The data only shows whether they filled out the form or not, and data obtained afterwards concerning the two parts (and later, more distinct parts) of the original population.
What this doesn't show is the effectiveness of the persuasion of the program. Find me information on a double-blind study of two populations, one who underwent a program, another that didn't. Both populations should both be from the same socio-economic background, and not have any other noteworthy predispositions.
My previous statements that abstinance programs don't work was based off of first-hand information from a professor that had worked in Africa, specificly dealing with the AIDs crisis. My position on this could change if I were shown enough good figures by what I consider unbiased research.
Chuck - 3/21/2005 10:38:00 AM
Virginity Pledge Does Not Ensure Avoidance of STDs
Just saw it on google news. Thought it was relevant.
Itchy_turd - 3/21/2005 01:35:00 PM
My original assertion on the subject of religious organizations using funds for abstinence programs was that it would not only prevent abortions, but also promote less destructive behavior and that less people would be affected by STDs.
It is interesting that at the end of the study I mentioned from Heritage.org, reference 2 did note that "teens who did not make virginity pledges were no more likely to experience infection with a sexually transmitted disease." (Read the whole paragraph there.)
That is consistant with the elitestv.com article (at first I thought the website was "elite std.com" lol), and with what your professor who had worked in Africa had said.
I conclude that so far abstinence programs are successful in reducing abortions, yet are not successful in reducing the spread of STDs, ironically.
So it really boils down to whether the arguement is about abortions or STDs, which my original comparison was religiously affilated organizations using gov't funds (right) vs. federal health care (left) including abortions. Even though it may appear that is an apples vs oranges arguement, I feel that is one of the main ways the right defends it's increased funding of those programs (which is why that was the comparison I was making).
I'll attempt to find a double-blind study, as you requested, and will be getting my response on the seperation of Church and State next...
- 3/21/2005 06:57:00 PM
for what its worth,id just like the record to show that i say abstinence is CRAP.
STDs are a lie set up by the govt. i mean,sure they exist.....but theyre not as rampant and widely spread as the media would have our youth believe...i got myself tested...and let me say this, if im clean, 80% of the people who think theyre probably passin the clap around are probably clean. *cough* what?
Itchy_turd - 3/21/2005 08:54:00 PM
That's a good point; we all know how the government is just a puppetmaster controling our media.
They control the hospitals too. And you're right, they need the spead of STDs so that they can control even more of our lives and bring about the New World Order. They're in bed with the big pharmaceutical companies who will make trillions once we are all infected...
But did you ever think to consider, that they only told you that you were clean, just so you'd be more likely to spread the epidemic, and also that you would be in the later stages of the disease before you started treatment, that way you'd be even more dependent on them?
Ooooo....
Now go back to your card shop.
Chuck - 3/22/2005 11:05:00 PM
What a timely discussion.
I'm unsure of the point you left me with Itchy, so I'll tackle the real threat now, Voyeur X.
for what its worth,id just like the record to show that i say abstinence is CRAP.
I appriciate you taking my side, but for the record the only people who have credibillity are those whose names are not withheld. I know who Itchy is. Who are you?
The clap is a bacterial infection. Big deal, get 1000mg of zithromax and take care of it. The threat is a virus that won't show symptoms for 6 months, to a few years after intercourse. Why would you even think to get tested for that? And I'm not just talking about AIDS, other virus have similar masking capabilities.
So if you don't want to ruin your chance of getting laid, maybe you don't want to mention your name here...
The Legend Killer - 3/23/2005 01:18:00 PM
Virginity pledges are for people that know that they have no chance of ever getting laid. Also, I wonder just how many people stick to the pledge. Honestly, do you really think that a little card with your name on it will stop you when the opportunity for a piece of ass comes along? What really keeps down abortion and STDs is being conscience of them. I grow very weary of this study and that study. Hell, if we spent half as much time conquering STD and abortion problems as we do studying virginity pledgers, I believe that would affect numbers much more prominently than any nonsensical study based off some kids decision in 6th grade. Of course, I could be completely wrong. After all, the government programmed me to say what they believe to be true. I guess I'm just one more pawn in the quest for universal manipulation. ;o)
Itchy_turd - 3/23/2005 05:51:00 PM
Personally, I don't give a damn about virginity pledges and abstinence programs.
And why are we getting sidetracked to STDs?
We were discussing the validity of government-funded abstinence, when you made the statement "Which is true, however, in ALL cases, deterring masses from sex (whatever your means, including W's religious programs) is ineffective...".
Which I legitimately countered with the study, which then got off on all the STD crap. That why I mentioned on my last post I was not trying to assert that the government funded abstinence programs were preventing the spread of STDs.
Unforetunately we have the thread exposed to a couple of blog-STDs, Pudwhacker X and the Randy Orton wanna-be, along with their worthless opinions.
Of course, those two kids are good examples of why I should support abortion. Too bad their moms didn't do us a favor and take a virginity pledge.
I should have countered Chuck's OP on this topic when he stated "What this doesn't show is the effectiveness of the persuasion of the program. Find me information on a double-blind study of two populations, one who underwent a program, another that didn't." with pointing out the third damn paragraph of the study:
"Data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which is funded by more than 17 federal agencies, show that the behavior of adolescents who have made a virÂginity pledge is significantly different from that of peers who have not made a pledge. Teenage girls who have taken a virginity pledge are one-third less likely to experience a pregnancy before age 18. Girls who are strong pledgers (defined as those who are consistent in reportÂing a virginity pledge in the succeeding waves of the Add Health survey) are more than 50 percent less likely to have a teen pregnancy than are non-pledgers."
Obviously, they did have a statistical control group, and I interpreted the word "peers" literally, so there ought to be no socio-economic/misc differences in the control group and the studied group.
I don't see the point in this topic since double-bind issue and STD issue has been laid to rest as irrelevant.
And legend killer, I wouldn't take you for a complete douch-bag like voyuer x if your post didn't make it completely obvious you didn't even bother to read the study linked on the OP, which set the topic being discussed.
Chuck - 3/23/2005 09:04:00 PM
What I'm having trouble swallowing is that this study actually found a difference in the way people behave after the abstinence program.
Let me explain. You have here a study in which a population is partitioned by a conscious decision they made, to be or not to be a virginity pledger. This decision I assert is based on environmental stimuli learned during a whole lifetime of experience, not some 30 minute seminar, or, in a best case scenario, a 6 - 9 week class.
I suspect if you studied two identical groups, one having participated in an abstinence program, another in a sex-ed cover-all-the-bases, and even another without any educational classes, that sexual intercourse would be nearly identical across the board. What would be different is how they protected themselves, whether it be condoms, birth control, or opting to have anal or oral sex.
Or in other words, the virginity pledge isn't based on a class, program, or seminar. It is likely the result of a specific upbringing, and those results are mentioned in the study. I think these people, reguardless of a pledge will make identical decisions throughout life.
What it doesn't address is how to reach the non-pledgers, which would be the golden trough of abstinence pushers.
And geez, you think you could be any more of an asshole to the people who post on here.
Legend Killer, Virginity pledges are for people that know that they have no chance of ever getting laid. No one here could argue that if they took their pledge seriously they would have no chance of getting laid. So yeah, you're right. But once again, they probably do so out of an obligation to their past.
Honestly, do you really think that a little card with your name on it will stop you when the opportunity for a piece of ass comes along?Yes.
No.
A bit.
Naw, not really.
- 3/24/2005 08:05:00 AM
it just seems to me that the only real ground anyone who supports virginity/abstinence pledges has to stand on is the overrated fear of stds, i mean....thats the main one anyway, and then also theres pregnancy, but id rather have a few children than a few diseases that will slowly melt my genitals...
and itchy turd , thats a good point, and no,before now i hadnt thought that maybe they just told me im clean so id just feel better while the bacterial things have orgies in my body...but now that youve brought it to my attention i am a bit worried....
and i dont know who any of you people are,except for chuck...
im sure you all know me though.
mep.
|
|
